Theatre Bay Area Chatterbox

Tuesday, August 4, 2009

Why I'm Glad We Don't Live in Shakespearean England (Or Modern-Day England, For That Matter)

The Times Online has a feature out today about the decline of good manners at West End theatres. Apparently, people are urinating onstage, fondling each other in bathroom stalls, texting, calling and being generally rowdy. What is everyone blaming? Low ticket prices and alcohol in the theatre.

First of all, we've talked about alcohol in the theatre before on this blog--twice. Personally, I don't think it makes any sense to allow alcohol into a theatre. I don't see people chugging beers at the movies. I'm all for banning alcohol in auditoriums. Once upon a time it was the norm for all food and drink to be banned during performance, and to me that makes sense. You can eat at the movies, but only because the sound is cranked up to a level where chewing isn't going to bother anyone too much. In live theatre, ear-splitting sound would be distracting and take away from the show.

Low ticket prices, though? How elitist can you be? I'm sure it's not just the poor folk being disrespectful. And I'm sure there are many who can't afford high ticket prices who are sitting completely respectfully, enjoying performances in a more mature way.

Of course, the article points out that back in Shakespeare's time, the groundlings used to jeer and throw things at performers...so really, we've come a long way, say the writers. That was also the time when being an actor was no better than being a prostitute, though, so rude behavior in the theatre made just a bit more sense. Also, back in Shakespeare's time, there was little in the way of sets and props. With the considerably more expensive and advanced production design of today, a return to rowdiness and boisterousness is also a major financial liability. Today, we are a more civilized society, people want to be able to hear what they paid to watch, and actor safety actually matters now. (For a counterargument from Carl Benson of the PianoFight blog, check out this past Chatterbox post.)

Events like the ones this Times article describes are a giant step backwards in theatre. Measures like installing bouncers are alarming (and maybe a little funny) because theatre is not a bar. There shouldn't need to be a police presence in a theatre. And asking that we leave the groundlings back in Elizabethan England isn't sanctimonious, it's common courtesy. I think we'd have far fewer aspiring theatre artists if having dinner scraps hurled at you were still a legitimate concern.

But blaming lower ticket prices is missing the point. Alcohol makes more sense as a cause for this rudeness, and perhaps the theatres are just too close to the pub district on the West End (I wouldn't know). So, London, take out the liquor inside the theatre and make sure the ticket takers look out for drunk patrons. And please, America, don't follow Britain's example. Theatre--and anything people have put work into, really--deserves more respect than that.

Labels: , ,

52 Comments:

At August 10, 2009 at 3:07 PM , Blogger Carl Benson said...

Hi Sabrina,

I've written a response to your post here:

http://piano-fight.blogspot.com/2009/08/tbas-sabrina-lazarus-wants-to-ban.html

Looking forward to your response!

-CB

 
At August 10, 2009 at 4:29 PM , Blogger Dan Wilson said...

My reply to Carl's post (and Clay's response) is available on the PianoFight blog, and I am posting it here as well.

I agree with both statements: the argument to remove alcohol from theatres is shortsighted and would not only limit the options of what a theatre could be, but would also bankrupt the vast majority of struggling theatres that are barely scraping by as it is. There's a reason Chicago has a storefront theatre on every other block: the city gives them liquor licenses.

I also agree that the acerbic and snarky nature of Carl's response doesn't increase the quality of discourse. Also, some of Ms. Lazarus' comments were taken out of context (her quip about "just the poor people" was clearly intended to point out the elitism of blaming low prices for bad behavior and by taking it out of context she was made to appear to be supporting the bias she was denouncing).

That said, if TBA does not wish for articles posted on their website, by their staff, to be taken by casual readers as the opinions of the organization, it would do well to put a disclaimer at the end of articles stating "the opinions stated are those of the poster and in no way represent the views of TBA". Without such an explicit statement, TBA *does* come across as hostile to small theatres who are already having a hard enough time competing with bands, bars, and Netflix.

Finally, as the Times article discusses, the problem is hardly confined to acts of inebriation (although those *are* the most gross examples). The problem is a much larger one of public propriety and manners, regardless of if you're drunk or not. Not allowing alcohol into a theatre doesn't do much if people are accustomed to general rudeness or (as was pointed out, again in the Times article) people *show up* to the theatre three sheets to the wind.

In fact, nowhere in the article do I see any indication that people are getting hammered at the theatre, but are already gone when they walk in the door.

And yes, that means you need bouncers in theatres. Drunks are going to cause just as much of a fuss if you don't let them in as they do once they're in their seats, and if you're going to evict them/prevent them from entering, you're going to need a bouncer. Nothing short of Prohibition will help that issue, and we all know how well *that* works.

 
At August 10, 2009 at 7:00 PM , Blogger Sabrina Lazarus said...

Again, I posted this at Piano Fight, but I am re-posting here.

Here's how I feel about all of this. I don't mean ban alcohol in all theatres, and if that's how it came across I apologize. I mean in the mainstream theatres where rowdiness doesn't make sense for the performance it shouldn't be allowed in the auditorium. It can and should be possible to buy alcohol in the lobby, but it should not find its way into the performing venue, in my personal opinion--at least not at the theatres for which that would not be apropos, and as the article shows, inebriation is in fact causing problems. While eliminating alcohol in the actual auditorium would not solve the problem, I think it might help.

The theatres that want to allow alcohol in their theatres during performance can and should. But I don't think the theatres this article referred to were those theatres.

And with reference to food -- it depends what you're eating. The sound of food being opened, food being chewed, food packaging being rustled...all of that can be extremely distracting, at least if you're in close proximity. Maybe I'm just sensitive, but I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I also believe you missed some of the sarcasm in my post. The use of terms like "poor folk" was meant as sarcasm. And yes, I do think it is immature to be drunk and rowdy in a place that doesn't invite that. Bars thrive on that atmosphere. Many theatres don't -- perhaps not yours, but many.

Venues can and should cater to a drunk and rowdy audience if they like. But the theatres in question here don't seem to like that, and at the types of performances spoken of in that article, it seems to me to be inappropriate. And I doubt that any theatre would appreciate someone urinating in the auditorium during a performance. That's just disgusting.

So there you have it. Feel free to disagree, but I stick by my opinion of the situation.

 
At August 10, 2009 at 7:01 PM , Blogger Sabrina Lazarus said...

Again, I posted this at Piano Fight, but I am re-posting here:

Here's how I feel about all of this. I don't mean ban alcohol in all theatres, and if that's how it came across I apologize. I mean in the mainstream theatres where rowdiness doesn't make sense for the performance it shouldn't be allowed in the auditorium. It can and should be possible to buy alcohol in the lobby, but it should not find its way into the performing venue, in my personal opinion--at least not at the theatres for which that would not be apropos, and as the article shows, inebriation is in fact causing problems. While eliminating alcohol in the actual auditorium would not solve the problem, I think it might help.

The theatres that want to allow alcohol in their theatres during performance can and should. But I don't think the theatres this article referred to were those theatres.

And with reference to food -- it depends what you're eating. The sound of food being opened, food being chewed, food packaging being rustled...all of that can be extremely distracting, at least if you're in close proximity. Maybe I'm just sensitive, but I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I also believe you missed some of the sarcasm in my post. The use of terms like "poor folk" was meant as sarcasm. And yes, I do think it is immature to be drunk and rowdy in a place that doesn't invite that. Bars thrive on that atmosphere. Many theatres don't -- perhaps not yours, but many.

Venues can and should cater to a drunk and rowdy audience if they like. But the theatres in question here don't seem to like that, and at the types of performances spoken of in that article, it seems to me to be inappropriate. And I doubt that any theatre would appreciate someone urinating in the auditorium during a performance. That's just disgusting.

So there you have it. Feel free to disagree, but I stick by my opinion of the situation.

 
At August 11, 2009 at 3:10 PM , Blogger Unknown said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At August 11, 2009 at 3:21 PM , Blogger Unknown said...

Well I’m glad that’s all settled.

Long live freedom of speech for everyone.

Here’s my question in regards to theatre and drinking in response to Clay’s comment

“But we (TBA) as a company don't have a stated stance on alcohol in theatre.”

Does that mean that TBA wouldn’t help to work with the city to make it less complicated and costly for theater venues to sell beer and wine, legally, for their particular needs?


My thought is regardless of your opinion on drinking and eating in theaters, the truth is many companies sell beer and wine without a license and run the risk of fines and worse. Not being a Non Profit doesn’t mean you can, unless you’ve been around for 20 years and get a license. We’ve gone to BYOB but that could have issues and you’re not making any money or providing for all of your patrons. There has always been a grey area with this issue and I feel it should addressed.

I’m not advocating everyone getting a beer and wine license and appreciate the variety of drinking and non drinking events. But for the handful of spaces that do offer these types of shows, it would be appropriate to have it, and legally. I realize companies like the Exit and my own Combined Artform went through the work for getting a license and other could as well. Having done it I see how certain elements could be changed to adhere to public safety concern while making it feasible for those theaters to obtain a license and meet the needs for their audience.

I do feel people especially now want to go out and have an event for the evening, not just a play, they want more. They want a drink, hang with friends, hear a band, and maybe have some food. Having beer and wine are a big part of this. Going through the process of getting a license you hear how much apart these worlds are. My hope is to have it out, legal and responsibly controlled.

If we can present as a collective the needs of the shows, venues and address the city and alcohol board we can find a plan to allow beer and wine to be sold legally, making money for all and making the audience happy. Anything is better than having the cloud hang over our heads.

Currently in Los Angeles a group of theaters are working with the city to do just this. I would love to talk to TBA and whomever else as well about making this possible in San Francisco.

 
At April 21, 2018 at 8:04 AM , Blogger Unknown said...

Try to get best portable inverter generator it is very helpful if you are out of energy

 
At April 23, 2018 at 7:30 AM , Blogger Richard Majece said...

In my opinion, people more active in social networks like twitter. I know that https://besttrackingapps.com/how-to-hack-twitter/ will be useful to recover your account if you need it.

 
At January 6, 2019 at 12:21 AM , Blogger Aixonne said...


topshipping is one of the best
sea freight from china to Canada services that offers its customers different kinds of shipping services from china to around the globe or better said “Freight forward to everywhere! “
Visit our site for more information.
https://topshipping.cn/sea-freight-china-canada

buy dress online
as well as bridesmaids clothes, winter spring autumn and summer clothes, Christmas costume clothes, toys, garden irrigation systems and tools, women’s/men’s clothing and accessories, media and electrical gadgets etc. The best products with the cheapest prices ever!
Shipping to all over the world… try it once, you’ll become our loyal costumer.
https://aixonne.com/product-category/clothing/women-clothing/dresses-wedding-events

 
At June 21, 2019 at 5:28 AM , Blogger AjayKM said...

good post
hotmail sign up

 
At September 26, 2019 at 1:38 AM , Blogger Hardeep said...

Signing in to Office allows you to make, alter, and share your documents. Subsequent to marking in, you're consequently marked in to online administrations like Office Online or OneDrive. Overseeing office 365 membership is simple, get all choice for installment office.com/setup reestablishment and scratch-off.

 
At September 26, 2019 at 1:39 AM , Blogger Hardeep said...

My Norton makes it easy for you to set up your Norton protection, check your security status, and extend your protection to other PCs, Macs, smartphones, and tablets. Norton setup is a process where do you enter the Norton Setup Key at norton.com/setup to activate & install Norton product.

 
At September 26, 2019 at 1:40 AM , Blogger Hardeep said...

McAfee keeps on developing to all the more likely shield clients from all types of malware incorporating ransomware with its Ransom Guard innovation, while including highlights that help mcafee.com/activate duty to helping clients appreciate a safe and private advanced life. McAfee has gone past conventional antivirus to assemble an item intended to fulfill the novel needs of the huge and developing PC gaming crowd.

 
At September 30, 2019 at 7:33 PM , Blogger arianapham said...

This is very interesting information. Thank you for sharing. To be sure your suggestions will help me mutilate a doll 2 thank you

 
At October 23, 2019 at 1:51 AM , Blogger AjayKM said...

good post thanks!
alaina marie mathers
sunder pichai wife

 
At November 25, 2019 at 1:35 PM , Blogger ahmed5987 said...

ليست الآفات التي يمكنها ركوب حيوانك الأليف فقط مشكلة في منزلك. تنجذب بعض الآفات أيضًا إلى طعام ومياه حيوانك الأليف. البعض الآخر قد يأتي في الحيوانات الأليفة الفراش أو اللعب. قائمة قصيرة من الآفات المحتملة التي يمكن أن يجذبها حيوانك الأليف تشمل:
شركة مكافحة حشرات
شركة مكافحة النمل الابيض بالرياض
شركة مكافحة الصراصير بالرياض


 
At March 16, 2020 at 5:30 AM , Blogger harshjimashwari said...

popcorntime

 
At April 23, 2020 at 1:44 AM , Blogger Barbara Pantuso said...

suncommunitynews
lwccareers
onlinegeniuses
beersinsac
techdirt

 
At April 24, 2020 at 5:56 AM , Blogger Emma Ludwig said...

nynmedia
endpts
delano
promaxbda
bluecollar

 
At April 29, 2020 at 7:09 AM , Blogger Barbara Pantuso said...

jobs.nynmedia
careers.endpts
jobs.delano
bluecollar
jobs.emberjs

 
At May 18, 2020 at 2:59 PM , Blogger Unknown said...

nice bro https://tempobete.linkbox.agency

 
At May 20, 2020 at 4:18 AM , Blogger Florahmelda said...

Essay on health & nutrition writing services are essential for college nutrition coursework writing services seekers and Nutrition Research Paper Services.

 
At May 27, 2020 at 9:58 PM , Blogger Emma Ludwig said...

ownedcore
buenosaires
vietnamta
free
gmauthority
ccm.net

 
At June 2, 2020 at 10:43 PM , Blogger Barbara Pantuso said...

managewp
permies
pkpschool
projects
quakewatch

 
At August 17, 2020 at 1:15 AM , Blogger Barbara Pantuso said...

Very impressive post. Thanks for sharing.
How to Optimize Your Online Shopify Store

 
At August 23, 2020 at 3:08 AM , Blogger Barbara Pantuso said...

Awesome post. I really like it.
Top 6 Ways to Rank your Blog on Top 5 Position

 
At August 24, 2020 at 2:29 AM , Blogger Helen Henson said...

hatena
archive
medium
myspace
ted
soundcloud

 
At August 28, 2020 at 7:37 AM , Blogger ayac said...


Orta asya ve uzak doğunun sex hd japon kızlarının porn videoları

 
At September 19, 2020 at 10:07 PM , Blogger Barbara Pantuso said...

Really Great post.
localwiki.org
beqbe.com

 
At September 20, 2020 at 6:55 AM , Blogger Emma Ludwig said...

nanocad
empire

 
At October 9, 2020 at 3:47 AM , Blogger Barbara Pantuso said...

Very beautiful post.
graphicriver.net
3docean.net
photodune.net

 
At October 19, 2020 at 5:18 AM , Blogger Kajal Agarwal said...

Web Hosting Providers web hosting services Web Hosting Services: - A web hosting service is a type of internet hosting service that enables individuals and organizations to make their website accessible on the World Wide Web. web hosting services are companies that provide storage space on a server owned by the customer or leased for use by the client, as well as providing Internet connections, usually in a data center. web hosting providers data center storage space and connectivity to the Internet for other servers in their data centers called colocations, also known as enclosures in Latin America or France.

 
At October 19, 2020 at 5:18 AM , Blogger Kajal Agarwal said...

A dedicated hosting service, server, or managed hosting service is a type of internet hosting where the client rents an entire server that is not shared with others. is. It is more flexible than shared website hosting because companies have complete control over the servers including the choice of operating system, hardware, etc. There is also another layer of dedicated or managed hosting, commonly known as complex managed hosting. Hosting is the ultimate dedicated server hosting solution. In short, dedicated server hosting is a solution when you rent the entire physical server for your websites. You are not giving this server away to anyone so that it can be fully configured for your specific needs.

 
At October 19, 2020 at 5:22 AM , Blogger Kajal Agarwal said...

Watch live and on-request TV from 60+ top channels, including sports, news, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. Also, get boundless access to the whole Hulu spilling library through our advertisement bolstered plan. No agreements, no link required. visit hulu.com/activate here. Stream all your TV in one spot with Hulu. Gain admittance to an enormous spilling library of elite past seasons, ebb and flow scenes, Hulu Originals, motion pictures, kids top picks, full periods of hit shows, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. download hulu.com/activate now. You would now be able to add Live TV to watch 50+ Live and On Demand diverts notwithstanding the spilling library. You can likewise include premium systems like HBO and SHOWTIME to your membership. click hulu.com/activate here.

 
At October 19, 2020 at 5:23 AM , Blogger Kajal Agarwal said...

Hulu centers principally around gushing more current TV shows and its very own unique substance over films or documentaries and offers month to month membership levels (more on this underneath) to tweak your survey involvement. visit hulu.com/activate here. It is safe to say that you are on the Hulu (No Ads) or Hulu (No Ads) + Live TV plan? Assuming this is the case, presently you can download a great many TV shows and motion pictures on your bolstered iOS gadget to watch disconnected later.

 
At October 19, 2020 at 9:55 PM , Blogger Kajal Agarwal said...

Mcafee login To Activate your 25 Digit Product Key Login Mcafee on your PC with You can without much of a stretch sign into your mcafee my account and activate the product visit mcafee.com/activate here. mcafee antivirus is comprehensively used antivirus recognizes and kill PC disease, the mail worms,the trojan programs,and also empowers your system to contamination and other malware is a huge consistently challenge. for more nuances visit: mcafee.com/activate today. mcafee.com/activate Shielding the computing devices against dangerous online threats, malware, phishing scams, Trojan horses and other infections.

 
At October 19, 2020 at 10:10 PM , Blogger Kajal Agarwal said...

My Norton makes it simple for you to set up your Norton assurance, check your security status, and stretch out your insurance to different PCs, Macs, cell phones, and tablets. visit Norton.com/setup here. Norton Security is the most recent PC programming security suite created by Symantec. It takes a shot at MS Windows, Mac OS X, Android, and iOS stages. download Norton.com/setup now. Norton Security Premium incorporates assurance for up to 10 gadgets. Progressively about looking at the three security programming bundles can be found at our Norton Security Editions Compared page. click Norton.com/setup here.

 
At December 4, 2020 at 10:26 PM , Blogger officecomsetup said...

Thanks for posting this info. I just want to let you know that I just check out your site and I find it very interesting and informative.

mcafee.com/activate mcafee.com/activate mcafee.com/activate norton.com/setup

 
At December 10, 2020 at 12:37 PM , Blogger Unknown said...

Diva Williams is a creative person who has been writing blogs and articles about cybersecurity. She writes about the latest updates regarding office setup and how it can improve the work experience of users. She articles have been published in many popular e-magazines, blogs, and websites like webroot.com/safe .

 
At December 11, 2020 at 8:13 AM , Blogger Unknown said...

John Peter is a creative person who has been writing blogs and articles about cybersecurity. He writes about the latest updates regarding office setup and how it can improve the work experience of users. He articles have been published in many popular e-magazines, blogs, and websites like office.com/setup .

 
At December 23, 2020 at 9:20 PM , Blogger officecomsetup said...

Nice information, valuable and excellent design, as share good stuff with good ideas and concepts, lots of great information and inspiration, both of which I need, thanks to offer such a helpful information here.

mcafee.com/activate
office.com/setup
norton.com/setup

 
At December 27, 2020 at 4:09 AM , Blogger Emma Ludwig said...

forum.flickergate
acva2010.cs.drexel
demo.evolutionscript
bridgebandit.com
forum.commeuncamion
schools.ihtusa

 
At February 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM , Blogger officecomsetup said...

Hi! I am Alice . I always get inspired by motivational blogs and articles. This site gave me excellent content. If anyone is interested in reading about data security, take a look at my site
mcafee.com/activate
mcafee.com/activate

 
At July 3, 2021 at 5:05 AM , Blogger Shirley Kemp said...

redbubble
laleggepertutti
herox
sonicsquirrel
hashatit
fnetchat
Tricks to create SEO Oriented URL for your Site

 
At July 25, 2021 at 8:39 AM , Blogger Emma Ludwig said...

Photo Editing App helps in making a picture apt for business
Role of good pictures in Targeted Advertisements
Role of Microblogging sites in Internet Marketing
Things to know before you invest money in a Business

 
At August 7, 2021 at 7:37 AM , Blogger Shirley Kemp said...

forexfactory
startupxplore
sooperarticles
activewin
cafebabel

 
At March 20, 2022 at 10:22 AM , Blogger onlyblog said...

Nice Blog. Thanks for sharing with us. Such amazing information.

Reasons for investing in Electric Vehicles in the modern era

 
At June 30, 2022 at 6:55 AM , Blogger Natasha Bryan said...

Nice blog, McAfee is the world’s greatest and largest device to cloud cyber security company, You can activate McAfee with the help of activation key by simply following the www mcafee activate.

 
At September 1, 2022 at 3:15 PM , Blogger Unknown said...

k4l56h7b91 s8e45k3m74 d6k79v6a84 b9l98v0z04 l0v95b6b28 e3o59q1s81

 
At January 18, 2023 at 11:37 PM , Blogger 10th textbooks said...

American Credit Acceptance is a well-known credit organisation in the United States that offers several payment choices for various services. Making use of them to pay off your auto loan is one such example. American Credit Acceptance Payment Alternatively, EMI payments can be made directly using one of their payment gateways. It operates in such a manner that your current loans are refinanced using a separate loan. It offers a lower interest rate and is frequently approved for vehicle loans. There may be situations when the automobile must be purchased straight from the dealership.

 
At May 19, 2023 at 7:45 AM , Blogger elijah said...

I simply couldn't leave your site just my reading this blog. I am really impressed with the content and way of writing. Keep sharing more. Nice information, valuable and excellent design, lots of great information and inspiration, both of which I need, thanks to offer such a helpful information here.
virginia protective order firearms
domestic violence protective orders in virginia

 
At March 10, 2024 at 11:05 PM , Blogger Atlas said...

abogado de lesiones por accidentes de motocicleta
The article "Why I'm Glad We Don't Live in Shakespearean England (or Modern-Day England, for That Matter)" is a humorous and insightful exploration of the quirks of both Shakespearean England and the present day. The author skillfully blends historical context with modern anecdotes, offering readers a witty perspective that resonates with a sense of appreciation for the conveniences of contemporary life. The article's clever observations provide both laughter and a thoughtful reflection on the quirks of different time periods. The author's ability to draw parallels between eras brings a fresh and amusing perspective to the contrasts between then and now. The article's witty tone and relatable content make it an enjoyable and entertaining read.

 

Post a Comment

Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]

<< Home